Transcript of Episode

Leah Gervais: Hey visionaries. Welcome back to the Your Biggest Vision Show. I am your host, Leah, and I’m very, very excited to have a friend of mine with us here today, Bola. Hi Bola.

Bola Sokunbi: Hi Leah! I’m so excited to be here. Thank you for having me.

Leah Gervais: Thank you so much for being here. So I just want to introduce you to our listeners and then I can’t wait to hear more from you. So Bola Sokunbi is the founder and CEO of Clever Girl Finance, one of my favorite finance websites. But, it’s a personal finance platform forum for women. Bola is a certified financial education instructor, a financial expert, a speaker, a writer, a podcaster, a social media influencer, very recently an author, her new book, Clever Girl Finance comes out on June 25th she’s been featured in Time, Money Magazine, ABC News and the list goes on and on. Her and I met in New York City last week at a panel. She’s just as lovely as you would imagine, if not more, and just thank you for being here.

Bola Sokunbi: Thank you. Thank you for having less. So nice to meet you. I’m glad we connected.

Leah Gervais: Yeah, I’m really glad too. It’s one of the pros of living in New York. So, you’re not from New York, you are from Nigeria, is that right?

Bola Sokunbi: Yes.

Leah Gervais: So why don’t you tell us a little bit about your childhood?

Bola Sokunbi: So I’m originally from Nigeria. My parents are from Nigeria. I was actually born in Vienna, Austria. Went to kindergarten in the beginning of grade school there and then moved back to Nigeria. We were in Austria for a job my Dad had. Moved back to Nigeria to finish up grade school and go to high school. Then I moved back to Vienna to go to college and then I moved to the states to graduate. However, doing those few years in Vienna. I actually spent I think a couple of years in Albany, New York with my mom, but my mom was going to school there. So I’ve kind of been back and forth and all over the place.

Leah Gervais: Okay, very global. So, one of the things I like asking people on this show is what did you think your life was going to be like when you grew up when you were a kid?

Bola Sokunbi: Oh my God. I imagined myself, to be honest where I wear a power suit to work every single day and high heels. I also thought that I was going to be a doctor. It was like this dream I had, but you know, I realized that the sight of blood made me want to pass out and that was completely off the table for me. So I always imagined myself being a working class woman, making my own money, being independent. That was just like the vision I have like being like a boss.

Leah Gervais: Right, okay, so it wasn’t directly related to a field, you just knew you wanted to like be a very driven and successful woman.

Bola Sokunbi: Yeah and I mean, I studied computer science in college and that was like the next thing I wanted to do. But when I thought about my future, I imagine the end goal, but the path to getting there wasn’t anything that I was hooked on. I didn’t have to be a doctor or computer sciences. I just wanted to have this successful life as the outcome.

Leah Gervais: Right, right. So I want to come back to that, but did you always know that you wanted to move to New York or the U.S. or did you not really care when you were younger?

Bola Sokunbi: I kind of knew that I would wind up here at some point because my brothers had come to college here. My parents were back and forth here. My oldest brother was born here, so we have a lot of ties here. We have a lot of family here. I knew that there was the potential that I could go to college here. New York kind of just happened. I got a job working in consulting and my firm placed me in New York City and that’s basically how I got to New York because my parents typically would be in the New Jersey, Pennsylvania area whenever they came. Which is kind of close, so New York was never like in my dreams or anything like that. It just happened.

Leah Gervais: Okay. Okay. So you get a job consulting here in New York. Was that your first job out of college?

Bola Sokunbi: Yes. My very first job out of college, consulting, traveling all over the whole place, like figuring out life, getting my first big paycheck. So I graduated and got a job that was paying me $54,000 a year before taxes. After taxes it was like 40k, but at the time, that was the first money I’ve ever made. I was a billionaire, so it was very exciting. I was like, wow, I have to learn how to manage my own money. I have to learn different things and that’s when I really started getting interested in personal finance and money because I had to figure out what a budget was. I came from, you know, Europe and Nigeria, there was nothing like a 401k. They are, their whole financial system is very different. I had to figure out, okay, what does a 401k mean for me? What does it mean to grow my money to invest? What does it mean to avoid credit card debt, all these different things I have to figure out all my own. So I had to do a lot of reading and I was trying to find resources that could make sense to me as a woman, a woman of color. There was really not much out there. A lot of the finance content bloggers at the time were all men, white men, so I kind of picked what worked and created my own little thing of what I was going to apply to my life and I would start talking to my friends about money.

Leah Gervais: So it sounds like it was clear to personal finance was a passion of yours and that’s why, obviously Clever Girl Finance is what it is today. It wouldn’t have started without a passion behind it. But what about the part when you realized, so backing up a little bit, you said you’ve had a vision for your life. You want it to be a successful woman, you want it to be a powerful woman. You are not attached to the road to get you there. You just were attached to the ending. Which I think is amazing. When did you realize that the road you were on, consulting, was not going to get you there? Did you have a moment like that when you started to realize you should probably start your own business? Or was it all about an interest in personal finance?

Bola Sokunbi: So it’s interesting because I moved from consulting to working in traditional corporate America site, you know, let go of the trial, but all that stuff. If had stayed at my job, I would have done very well. When I quit my job, I was making six figures, lots of opportunity to grow. My skill set was very unique for what I did for my company. So there was a good sense of job security there as well. So if that could have been one path, right? It could’ve been this slow and steady path to building, you know, success/wealth in a career, which is also fine. But I got to this point where I was working in New York, I had just had my twin babies and I was just in this space where I was feeling a little bit unfulfilled. Partially postpartum depression, partially wanting to do something that really mattered. I started thinking about everything I could do and it actually took me a couple of years to figure out the idea for Clever Girl Finance. So I had a notebook where I’d write down all these different ideas of all these businesses I could test. I have always had an entrepreneurial spirit. So throughout my working career, I’ve always been doing something on the side. Whether it was having a wedding photography business that I did on nights and weekends, or having my own online retail shop, or even while in college as an international student because I couldn’t really get a full time or even part time jobs off of campus, I was selling my mom’s friends *unable to transcribe*.

Leah Gervais: Good for you.

Bola Sokunbi: You know, so, I’ve always had this entrepreneurial spirit. I couldn’t figure it out. And so I had this notebook and every now and then I would write my ideas, I’d write things down, I just couldn’t figure it out. At the end, kind of two years later as I was going through and I was like wait a minute, I can talk about the thing that I talk about all the time, which is money and that’s something I’m passionate about. It’s something that I’ve spent a lot of time, you know, saving money and investing money, talking to my friends and my friends are always asking me, Bola, how did you save? Bola, how’d you invest? How did you make this much money? What do you do with your business finances? All these different questions. So that was how the idea for Clever Girl Finance was born. At the very early stages it will still a side hustle. I didn’t have like a relayed out roadmap of like week one, month one, year one, year 10. It was just something I wanted to do because I was passionate. I didn’t really overwhelm myself with all the thoughts. I just thought, what can I do now to kind of get over this feeling of feeling unfulfilled? So that was where that came from.

Leah Gervais: There’s so much there. That’s so, so amazing. So I’ve never had a kid, I’m not a mother. But I can only imagine the emotion that comes up when you are a career woman. You’ve always wanted to be a career woman. You’ve worked really hard for your career and now you have babies and they’re your first and you’re a woman and you’re their mother. I’m sure so many people can resonate with what you said too. For you, that manifested in a way where you decided to take control of their life in a different way so that you didn’t have to work for someone else. Then you could start something on your own. Where do you think that you found the bravery to do that? Or maybe if you didn’t feel very bad at the time, what advice would you give to other women that feel that way, that are trying to figure out how to have the best of both worlds, trying to do both, feel all over the place and don’t know how to sort it out?

Bola Sokunbi: I mean, I don’t know about finding bravery. I think doing it despite all of the fear and despite knowing what I knew about how businesses fail, but just taking a chance. Right. So having babies and working full time and then starting a business is overwhelming, but it’s possible. I’m a testimony to that and I think it’s just really making sure that it’s something that you want to do and having like what is going to be your fall back? So for me it was like, okay, I actually worked several finance with my full time job for about a year and a half or so before I quit. When I did eventually quit to do Clever Girl Finance full time. It was like, okay, if I can’t get this thing off of the ground in the next 12 months, then I’m going to go back and find another job. Before I had quit to start my business, I had been putting money aside. So I put aside about 18 months of money to support my own household obligations. That way I wouldn’t have become this burden on my family because I’m going around pursuing my dreams. So I was kind of a little bit strategic about it. So you know, the stats about businesses, how many fail in the first year, in the first five years, you know what the chances are.

You have to figure things out to help your business grow. But if you don’t take the chance, then you’ll never know. I remember having a conversation with a friend of mine and everyday we’re talking about, oh my God, when are we going to quit? Oh my God, how will I live without my paycheck? Oh my God, I’m so used to getting that consistent paycheck. I’m not going to be able to go shopping. I’m not gonna be able to split it or the things I like cause I will know what my income is going to be cause it’s going to be so inconsistent and we just would go back and forth and one day we were like, you know, okay we saved this money. I’m going to do it first. She quit her job a year later because she was working to save and her business is booming, she has a six figure business now. So it’s just taking a chance but also having a fallback plan, knowing that, okay, if this doesn’t work out, It’s okay. It’s not the end of the world. You’ve learnt so many incredible lessons. Find a new job and then take your lessons and put it to that next step of what you want to do with your business and in your life.

Leah Gervais: Amazing advice.  I know you and I talked a little bit about this when we were on a panel last week, but one of my main things that my clients do is leave their nine to five jobs. It’s interesting how people are so afraid to do it and me too, I was afraid to do it. But really the worst case scenario is often ending up exactly where you are now in a nine to five job. And if you still hate it, then you can try different business. You know, you can handle more than you think and it’s worth taking a chance when really the biggest thing you have to lose is just getting another nine to five job. So walk me through that day when you quit or maybe the day when you decided I’m going to quit. I know I know a little bit about this, but for our listeners, what was that like?

Bola Sokunbi: So I tried to quit at first and my boss wouldn’t let me. I had a unique skill set and you know, the learning curve to do what I did is really, really long. It took them two years to hire from my role and he was going to do everything in his power to keep me. So he was like okay, what do you want? I was like, well, I don’t know. I just want to quit. I didn’t tell him I was starting a business or anything like that. I was like, I just need more time to my family. He’s like, okay, then just work from home. You don’t ever have to come into the office again. We’ll just talk on video conference. I was like, Oh really? Wow. So I actually did go and work from home for six months. I did not go into the office. Nobody else, nobody else at work had that privileged opportunity. It was just me and it gave me a ton of time that I wasn’t commuting, that I, you know, I could work on building my business and still get a paycheck. And then later on I was like, you know, this is not sustainable. I have to be able to deliver a good job for my boss and build this business. Now I got to the point where I had to choose because of the day I was still working a ton of hours for my business at a ton of hours from my job, because I wanted to deliver a good job. So I quit. He actually did not go to my goodbye lunch. He was just very upset and I was okay with that. At the end of the day, we all have to move on on, take our chances. And I was like, you know what, if this is a horrible idea, I’ll go back begging, I’ll go back grovelling my job. Right?

So the first week I quit, I had a lot of anxiety. I was like, oh my God. Was this… I just quit my six figure job and my business has barely made $200. Like, what are you doing? And my husband was like, you’re going to be fine. You’ve already planned this. It’s gonna work now. You have all this time as opposed to staying up to three and four in the morning. Now you have all this time to get work done during the day, rest, take care of your kids and just create some sort of balance while you build this business. And so, after that, the first week it kind of became the norm. You get used to it, you start to plan and you get really creative with, you know, ways to generate income. And I started testing a ton of stuff and I had all this time to network and test and make my business my priority. So, you know, I think when people are going through the transition, the big mistake they make when they leave their job is that they stay comfortable. Assuming they’re going to start getting that, you know, every two weeks paycheck. But that’s not how it is. And if you don’t get out of your comfort zone and get aggressive and start to chase the things that you need to do to build your business, to build revenue, then you’re good. You might find that you’re struggling and you wonder why. And it’s because you’re kind of in this safe space where I’m just going to check my email, I’m just going to do this blog post. You have to get really hungry and aggressive and out there. And the other thing I would add is that, you know, we had just talked about worst case scenario, what’s the worst thing that can happen? You would go back and find another job. And I think a lot of people really struggle with that because of what they think people are gonna think about them.

You know, social media sensationalizes this whole entrepreneurship thing. I mean, look at us both without where I make up now. This is like a real conversation. But for Instagram we’re going to put on some lipstick and take pictures, oh my god, great day at work. That’s just what it is. And people get so worried about what other people are going to think about them. Oh my God, they’re going to think my business has failed. How can I go back that it becomes this, you know, instead of being excited about running their business and getting out of their comfort zone, it’s now this extra burden they’re carrying where they start to feel depressed and start having all these, you know, mental health issues and just being really stressed out because they don’t want people to judge them. They think they’ve failed, but they’re still saying comfortable in this space and not chasing that business aggressively. So when you’re thinking about this, when it comes to business, there is no shame in your game. You do what you have to do to grow your business every way possible. As uncomfortable as it may be. And worst case scenario, you go back, you get a full time job and you continue to work your business on nights and weekends and you get to the point where you can, quit the job again. So going back to work was never off of the table for me. It was always, that’s going to be my backup plan.

Leah Gervais: Yeah. Yeah. I so much about you just said is so smart. I think Instagram definitely sensationalizes entrepreneurship and I think for a lot of people, I think one of the things that I didn’t realize enough when I quit cause it’s never talked about, is how many decisions you have to make every day as an entrepreneur. Most of them are big decisions, actually…. like there’s just so many big and little decisions, but even things like what time do I need to get up in the morning? When do I need to go to work? How do I need to get there? What time are my meetings, what’s on my to do list? Those are all decided for you at your nine to five job for the most part. Like you have some autonomy, but for a lot of it you get to be pretty passive.

The only decisions you’re really making come with how well you can do the tasks you’re assigned to. I get that’s kind of a broad generalization because all my five jobs vary. But when you are on your own, you are calling the shots on everything and you have to get so quick at making decisions because you only have so much brain power to make a decision every day. So if you’re dwelling on things like what’s so and so gonna think of me, is this actually a good idea? Should I really be this pushy? It’s not gonna move as quick as you need because it’s just not the same as a nine to five job in, in every sense of it. You know? Not only is your paycheck not the same, you need to become a different person. Wonderful. Okay. I want to shift gears here in just a second. Well, actually, let’s shift gears a little bit now. So you are a woman and a woman of color making you a very small percentage of successful business founders, which is amazing. I’m sure you could write a whole book on this and hopefully one day, but one day, is there any instance or situation that you are willing to share with the audience about when this felt particularly challenging or when you felt particularly proud, being in the shoes that you’re in right now?

Bola Sokunbi: So I’ll start with the ladder. So I’m particularly proud to be a woman of color building this personal finance business to have a voice in this space where there are not many women who look like me, not enough women who look like me in this space and to basically champion other women of color or just women in general period. So that is something I’m very proud of. I’m proud to basically take a stand for females to take a stand for females of color and just be like, you know what? We matter, we make money, we are successful. We, you know, if we have the right resources, we can do incredible things. So that to me, that makes me really proud. I’ve had several challenges being a female founder, of being a founder of color. From meetings to ridiculous comments. I’ve been told that, you know, I’m a woman of color, so a lot of my audience are women of color as well. I’ve been told that pursuing personal finance for women and women of color is a gimmick because everybody has equal opportunity. I’ve been told are there even a million women of color in America that care about their finances? I’ve been told yes, I’ve been asked to wear lipstick to not wear lipstick, when I’m meeting with investors or having meetings. I’ve been told by a really big name, which I will not mention that, you know, my wife was a CFO and she doesn’t care about her finances. Why do you think other women will? So there’s all these stereotypes out there. There’s all these ideas people have about why we cannot be successful as females. Even most recently somebody sent me an email and the email said it, they went to the website, went to the contact to me and said, why is it Clever Girl Finance for women? Is it because men are much smarter than you and you guys need extra help with finances?

I get this all the time and initially I would get really angry and I want to clap back and I’d have all these words to say, but what I realized is that, you know, these people are always going to have their opinions and it’s my job to change the narrative and I’m going to do it in a positive way. And the best way to do that is to be successful and to empower other women to be successful so that when they start to come up with all these nonsensical thoughts and you know, and they see how successful we have become. They sound and they look stupid because it’s like, what are you saying? Can’t you see what’s happening?

Leah Gervais: They’re clearly wrong. I read on your blog post that someone once told you maybe not wear your wedding rings to a meeting because it suggests that you’re too busy with your family.

Bola Sokunbi: Yes, she was a female that told me this, another female founder. And she said, you don’t want to wear your wedding rings to meetings because it’s going to look like you have too much commitment and people don’t want to know that.  But I am committed. I have a husband, I have children, and I can be successful with all of these things. That’s part of what makes us unique as women is the fact that we are able to juggle all these millions of things that we do by virtue of who we are as women, and still do a better job than a lot of men in our day to day at work, with money with, no, it’s so true. It’s like, what are they talking about? What do you have to do sir? So you wake up, your wife makes you breakfast, you go to the gym, you go to work. Oh my God, what a tough day. Guess what I do? I’m waking up multiple times in the night, getting my kids ready for school, dropping them off, doing laundry, doing a good job at work, dealing with my family finances, doing all these different things and you’re going to tell me that, you know, like, are you joking? Seriously. So, yeah, it used to get me aggravated and sometimes I still am. It’s like the success, the narrative changing is going to be showing them how good we are.

Leah Gervais: Yeah. Leading by example. Thank you for sharing all of that. I am really stunning sometimes that we live in this day and age and still some of this stuff is being talked about. So, I mentioned this to you beforehand, but I came from you nonprofit before I started working for myself. I was very focused on racial equity. Which I am not going to do a whole podcast episode on. I would love to, but it’s a very intense topic and I would never want to like disservice it. But it’s really important and it’s something that’s very different than racial equality and even sort of diversity and I don’t know if you have any advice on this and it’s cool if not, but for entrepreneurs that are working for themselves that are bootstrapping their businesses or that are around the early phases and in resources always seem type for everything. How can even people in those early stages can consider their work through a lens of gender equity and, or racial equity.

Bola Sokunbi: I mean, so this is a, this is my standpoint. I feel like the, this, you know, gender inequity, racial  issues, they exist today, right? They’re not going to be solved tomorrow. These are issues that have been around forever and they have a long way to go in terms of making progress. So what can you do to make sure that you can still be successful given the dynamic of these situations? Right? And sometimes it’s hard, right? I struggle to raise capital because of element of color, right? So, you know, women get 2% of venture capital today and the women of color get like zero point something ridiculous, right? It’s like zero point nothing basically. Well, you know, what studies and statistics show is that despite this, if we apply ourselves, meaning we don’t expect any handouts, we don’t blame anybody.

We just focus on what we want. It shows that we are so resourceful and when we have the opportunities we can build incredible things. So given the fact that all these issues exist, given the fact that we are stuck with limited funding or no funding, what can you do in your specific space? Number one, to make a difference? To start to change the narrative in your small way. Like taking a stand for something. Like I’m taking a stand for women and women of color as it pertains to them and their finances and being successful. But what can you do? Secondly, how can you get creative to generate the capital in unconventional ways to allow your business to grow and allow your voice to be heard.

The average white male can go to the silicon valley and raise $1 million, easy peasy. For the most part, they get 98% of all funding. Hey, that’s easy, but we are not in that space. So what can we do? It could be leaning on your network, it could be funding your business or solve working part time so he can pump money into your business or even working full time. It could be leveraging your network, it could be creating products and services that you can sell to help you focus on the big, eventual product or the big eventual service you want to be able to create. It could be partnering with other people in your space in this stage, in this space, knowing what we know, it’s about getting creative. And it’s also about upholding other people in your space who are pursuing a similar idea or on a similar path because there is power in numbers. If you forget about competition and said you focused on collaboration, new, find ways to help you know, grow your business and get the resources and you may go slower because you know you’re working so hard because they’re limited by funding. And that’s okay too, right? Att the end of the day, the goal is that hopefully are able to create a cascading effect in time. You will grow and then you will prove that current narrative wrong and you’ll be able to have much more of a voice and be able to impact changing all this inequality and differences that exist today. So we all have to start with ourselves, you know, it starts with us and we have to do what we can to inspire that change.

Leah Gervais: Oh, that was so inspiring and amazing and I couldn’t agree more. I mean, I know Diane von Furstenberg, um, says, you know, obviously she’s like a huge fashion designer, but she always says the best advice she ever got was from her mother who said the you can never play the victim role and her mother was a survivor of the Holocaust and she was in Auschwitz for a long time. So for her to even say that after that, she still didn’t like let herself, you know, blame anyone and really just into her control. I think it’s such a testament to the power of women. Thank you for sharing that from your perspective as well. On a more positive note, you have a book coming out here soon. When this is released it will be just a few weeks. So why don’t you tell us a little bit about that. A huge congratulations.

Bola Sokunbi: Thank you. So I’m so excited. I have a book coming out, it’s called Clever Girl Finance: How to Ditch That, Save Money and Build Wealth. This a book that I wish I had in the early stages of me figuring out my finances and saving money. I essentially created this book to be a reference. So in it I share my personal story and my money mistakes, my money successes and I also share the personal stories of other women who have done incredible things with getting out of debt, saving money as a way to inspire other people. What I did, so my story is being able to save $100,000 in a three and a half years when I got out of college. But my story is not unique and there are women out there who have done incredible things. I featured some of them in my book. The book is also basically a guy to help you as you work through, you know, any life transition when it comes to your finances. If you’re trying to learn how to budget, change our mindset and negotiate your salary, we start a business, figure out how to create a climate of fear of student loans. I have put all this stuff in the book. So my goal is that it becomes this reference that as you go through different life transitions, you come back to it and it can guide you to help you becoming financially successful. So I’m really proud of this book. I put my heart into it and I can’t wait for everyone to read it. So it comes out on June 25th and it’s available everywhere books are sold, it’s going to be available as a physical book and Ebook and audiobook. So if your books are, doesn’t have it, you can ask them to order it. You can get it from Amazon, you can get it on audible. If you typically get books from her library, ask your library to order a copy for you on the website or by going in there in person.

Leah Gervais: Amazing. That sounds like a book everyone should read. Are you doing any events in New York for it?

Bola Sokunbi: I’m actually, I want to do a book launch party in June. I’m trying to figure out space.

Leah Gervais: Let me know.

Bola Sokunbi: Yes, let’s talk about that. Awesome. Congratulations on writing it. I’m sure that it’s something that I wish I would’ve had as well when he was graduating from college. And I love that you kind of can work through women’s specific life events with it and I think it’s really valuable. Just like entrepreneurship, I don’t think it’s smart to take a bunch of different advice from a bunch of different people. It’s kind of good to go to some people that you trust and really let them mentor you throughout and really learn everything from them. So I love that it’s a resource you can offer to women again and again, thank you for writing it.

Bola Sokunbi: Thank you.

Yeah, absolutely. All right. Well, you have been beyond inspiring to talk to you and I’m so grateful for everything you shared with us. I have a couple quick visionary questions for you and then we’re going to wrap up. You Ready? Okay. What is one thing you can do to fight for your vision even when it seems things are fighting against it?

Bola Sokunbi: One thing that has really helped me is to work on my personal development. The more you know, the more you’re able to figure out on your own, the more you’re able to leverage the feedback and advice that’s given to you by advisors or mentors or even like your community or your customers. So personal development is so key because it gives you ideas and strategies that can help you continue to pursue that big vision.

Leah Gervais: Wonderful love personal development here. What’s one thing you’re the most proud of in your life?

Bola Sokunbi: My kids.

Leah Gervais: What’s a book or podcast that you love and recommend?

Bola Sokunbi: My Book of course, but a book I just recently read, which is a business book is by Raegan Moya Jones and she is a woman who founded the company, Aden and Anais. It’s a baby accessories company and she built a hundred million dollar business. So the book is called How I Built a Hundred Million Dollar Business Against the Odds that I just recently read that amazing book. She’s very focused on female empowerment because she faced a ton of struggles building that $100 million business, but she built it and she did an amazing job of it. So I love that. Podcasts wise, oh my God, I listen to so many podcasts that are not business. So like I’ve been listening to doctor death, so good. And then also Dear John, so I’m kind of on this path of like crazy people. If you’re into mystery, thriller type thing, those are two good podcasts.

Leah Gervais: Whatever entertains you and keeps your mind off the crazy things in life. Well thank you so much Bola, I have one last thing. How can people find out more about you?

Bola Sokunbi: You can find me on my website, CleverGirlFinance.com. Or on Instagram or Youtube or Facebook at CleverGirlFinance.

Leah Gervais: Amazing. Thank you so, so much. You’ve been incredible and I can’t wait to read your book.

Bola Sokunbi: Thank you for having me.

Leah Gervais: Talk to you soon.

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